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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175822 is a reply to message #175237] |
Fri, 21 October 2005 18:43   |
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Sniper_De7
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I think the point being made was that it was for social uses, something you do specifically with your friends. something more of a "ritual" than something you have to do. say if your family got together every 6 months and watched football or if they played basketball. Sure doing drugs might be bad for you but who knows maybe they do it and then share their experiences? now that sounds a little bit real. I mean i'm sure he admits that it is bad in the health wise. Maybe not severe enough to alter his life completely (especially if he admits saying he quits for 6 months)
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175828 is a reply to message #175237] |
Fri, 21 October 2005 19:08 |
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warranto
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Location: Alberta, Canada
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Even simply something being a "ritual", or for social use doesn't automatically make it a good thing to do. Sure, it gives the people a reason to do it, but does it legitimize using (in this example) marijuana, cigarette/cigar smoking, excessive drinking (small amounts of some alcohol are actually benificial), etc.?
Edit: it's been pointed out to me that this statement may be construed as bringing morality into the argument. Rest assured that this is not what I have intended. Keep this idea to a practical-usage rather than a moral-usage. So if you get the idea that something sounds like a difference of morality, ignore that train of thought, and concentrate of the practical reasons for legitimizing it or not.
[Updated on: Fri, 21 October 2005 19:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175836 is a reply to message #175828] |
Fri, 21 October 2005 20:21 |
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Sniper_De7
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I never said that it did make it a good thing to do. It's not really debatable to say what's good for a person. if a guy wanted to celebrate by smoking weed every few months it certainly isn't going to harm him really bad. There are reasons for and against smoking weed, the bad being obvious with chances of physical addiction, cancer, etc. etc. the good being you might want to make a day better by adding something to it, or for sharing something with your friends. saying one is better than the other is more of an opinion of that person. I do have to say that when it comes into effect of other people (ie driving drunk) than it becomes no contest. in some cases i don't see how it couldn't be legitimized, though. I mean if you do it only once every blue moon and with a couple of people and not so much that you get physically dependent on it and you don't have health hazards
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175842 is a reply to message #175237] |
Fri, 21 October 2005 22:17 |
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warranto
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Location: Alberta, Canada
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Sorry, but if you need drugs to "make a day better", then there is something seriously wrong with you.
When you are high you think differently. That's a given fact. If it was 100% sure that nothing bad would ever happen when a person is high, then I would have no problem with it. However, that is not so. There have been people who have gotten high, and killed others. If it could be proven 100% that someone who smokes marijuana will not move on to a harder drug, then I'd be all for it. However, there are some that WILL move on to a harder drug after experiancing the effects of getting high.
So far, the only legitimate reason I've seen for the support of marijuana is that it's fun/interesting/whatever other word you want to use. This can be accomplished other ways, with a little work. Like discussing philosophy while your high? Go read some books and do it under sober conditions. I'm sure you'd get more out of it. Get high so that you can experiance things in a different way? Train yourself to do it without the assistance of drugs. It's actually not that hard.
I forget who, but someone once described to me what happens when they get high. He's able to see his grandmother climbing his leg (or something to that effect). Use your imagination and you can accomplish the same thing, just by putting yourself into that frame of mind, without the assistance of drugs. I can do it, so I'm sure it can't be that hard.
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175874 is a reply to message #175237] |
Sat, 22 October 2005 07:27 |
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SuperMidget
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Registered: November 2004
Location: Barrie, ON
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OK so this is what we have established:
-Drugs are a bad habit
-They are addictive (not phsyically)
This is all we've agreed on in the past 6 pages. Drugs will never become legal, yes. However I am quite confident that they will eventaully become de-criminalized.
Edit: Btw Warranto, your quote: "I forget who, but someone once described to me what happens when they get high. He's able to see his grandmother climbing his leg (or something to that effect)."
That was NOT weed. You don't see things like that when you're high, maybe shrooms, coke, or acid for sure, but there's no way that was just a weed high.
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[Updated on: Sat, 22 October 2005 07:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175915 is a reply to message #175776] |
Sat, 22 October 2005 12:18 |
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Fabian
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| Javaxcx wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 18:43 |
| SEAL wrote on Fri, 21 October 2005 17:57 |
I don't have nearly enough time to comment on all that bullshit. Just goes to show you that you really don't know what you're talking about because you have no frame of reference. Who here is saying that people who do drugs ONLY do drugs? Do people who drink on the weekends at parties because they have social lives make them alcoholics? Fuck you. Many people who smoke pot also enjoy other, more wholesome parts of life like the stuff you mentioned.
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Whoa, calm down there turbo. Your "frame of reference" argument was already crushed, and crushed severely. Yet you insist on it, why?
I'll make it plainly clear to you, because it seems that no amount of persuasion, logic, or reasoning with you will ever change your one dimensional, and ultimately (and justly) moronic view that what you're doing is all right. You commit willful selfish acts that have harmful (you can ask ANY, and I mean any physician why inhaling concentrated carbon-based elements directly into your lungs is harmful), habitual, and more over ILLEGAL activities to appease your silly concept of having a good time. Yet you also admit you don't need to take drugs to have a good time (or at least you implied it)... so why are you still doing drugs? The "because everyone else is doing it and I want to have a good time" argument is thin and subject to more rhetoric then you can cram into John Kerry's forehead.
Now if you're going to post, but don't have enough "time" to respond with sound reasoned arguments, then spare the universe your ad hominem and make time.
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How was it crushed? Because you say so? Please. I had opinions about pot at points in my life when I hadn't smoked pot yet, and now, giving me two perspectives. You can only speak as someone who hasn't smoked. Psst: 2 > 1.
What I do is not selfish. I smoke in the privacy of my own home, and it doesn't effect anyone else.
Don't talk to me about ad hominem. Just look at the post I'm replying to...
I never said doing drugs wasn't unhealthy. My first post in this thread actually says the opposite. Why are you telling me this?
And lastly, we don't need a reason to do them, so there's really no point in attacking our "reason" for doing drugs. If you need a concrete and well developed reason for doing drugs, you're just showing me again that you don't know what you're talking about and don't understand recreational drug usage.
| warranto wrote on Sat, 22 October 2005 01:17 |
Sorry, but if you need drugs to "make a day better", then there is something seriously wrong with you.
When you are high you think differently. That's a given fact. If it was 100% sure that nothing bad would ever happen when a person is high, then I would have no problem with it. However, that is not so. There have been people who have gotten high, and killed others. If it could be proven 100% that someone who smokes marijuana will not move on to a harder drug, then I'd be all for it. However, there are some that WILL move on to a harder drug after experiancing the effects of getting high.
So far, the only legitimate reason I've seen for the support of marijuana is that it's fun/interesting/whatever other word you want to use. This can be accomplished other ways, with a little work. Like discussing philosophy while your high? Go read some books and do it under sober conditions. I'm sure you'd get more out of it. Get high so that you can experiance things in a different way? Train yourself to do it without the assistance of drugs. It's actually not that hard.
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I agree with your first paragraph.
The killing others is not the responsibility of pot. Pot does NOT make you (more) aggresive by itself.
The whole thing about people moving on to harder drugs is bullshit. This usually comes from studies that tell you people who have done hard drugs started with pot, but people who have done drugs have also eaten a bowl of cereal. They aren't cause and effect. Places with legalized or decriminalized pot laws show a slight increase in pot usage, and an actual decrease in hard drug usage. If there's a person who wants to try pot but is afraid it will lead to other things, than that person is a pussy (I think that's the scientific word for it).
And yes, you can have fun other ways. You can have fun NOT playing computer games too, so what's your point?
| Warranto |
I forget who, but someone once described to me what happens when they get high. He's able to see his grandmother climbing his leg (or something to that effect). Use your imagination and you can accomplish the same thing, just by putting yourself into that frame of mind, without the assistance of drugs. I can do it, so I'm sure it can't be that hard.
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That is a reference from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Something about seeing "your grandmother crawling up your leg with a large hunting knife in her mouth." And trust me, Hunter S. Thompson literally meant he SAW that. Your brain can't do that on its own unless you are mentally unstable.
[Updated on: Sat, 22 October 2005 12:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175919 is a reply to message #175842] |
Sat, 22 October 2005 12:47 |
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mrpirate
Messages: 1262
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| warranto wrote on Sat, 22 October 2005 01:17 |
So far, the only legitimate reason I've seen for the support of marijuana is that it's fun/interesting/whatever other word you want to use. This can be accomplished other ways, with a little work. Like discussing philosophy while your high? Go read some books and do it under sober conditions. I'm sure you'd get more out of it. Get high so that you can experiance things in a different way? Train yourself to do it without the assistance of drugs. It's actually not that hard.
I forget who, but someone once described to me what happens when they get high. He's able to see his grandmother climbing his leg (or something to that effect). Use your imagination and you can accomplish the same thing, just by putting yourself into that frame of mind, without the assistance of drugs. I can do it, so I'm sure it can't be that hard.
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There's a huge difference between imagining something and experiencing it. But you'd need to be on a lot of LSD to see things like that anyway, so it's kind of beside the marijuana point.
I, like Duke (while we're on Hunter S Thompson), do not agree that you can get higher without drugs than with them. If it was possible to have drug experiences while sober (and acid flashbacks don't count), do you really think people would still do drugs? Keeping in mind that drugs like LSD really aren't that addictive (I'm not going to bother), since the desire to use them is greatly reduced immediately after a trip.
[Updated on: Sat, 22 October 2005 12:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175921 is a reply to message #175237] |
Sat, 22 October 2005 12:58 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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Hydra: I'm not tryign to suggest that Marjuana is a gateway drug, or that it makes you agressive.
All I'm saying is that there have been people who have killed while on a high received from marijuana. Perhaps there was somethign wrong with that person in the first place, but the act (I don't think) would have occured while sober. As well, there have been some people who have liked the high, and wanted to find something better after the high didn't satisfy them (this is also the same reason why some people are always looking for the bigger and better thrill ride).
mrpirate: Heh, it was a physical person who described that to me, however I'm now thinking that's where he got the idea from... (I've never seen the movie)
For arguments sake, I'll agree to keep the "addictive" references restricted to the physical one that we all know and love 
As for the difference between imagining something, and experiancing it, I admit there is a difference' however, in my experiance it has only been a subtle, almost negligable, one. But then, I guess that is only me.
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175929 is a reply to message #175237] |
Sat, 22 October 2005 14:02 |
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Javaxcx
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Location: Canada, eh?
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| SEAL wrote on Sat, 22 October 2005 15:18 |
How was it crushed? Because you say so? Please. I had opinions about pot at points in my life when I hadn't smoked pot yet, and now, giving me two perspectives. You can only speak as someone who hasn't smoked. Psst: 2 > 1.
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No, it was crushed. The reasoning behind it is painfully flawed. I suggest you read through this thread again, because I am not going to cater to your ignorance.
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What I do is not selfish. I smoke in the privacy of my own home, and it doesn't effect anyone else.
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I don't think you quite understand what "selfish" means. Selfishness doesn't need to effect someone else. It can, in effect be the result of not effecting someone else.
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Don't talk to me about ad hominem. Just look at the post I'm replying to...
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I don't quite think you know what ad hominem is either. The language I use, while can be taken as seen as vulgar, fits the bill precisely.
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I never said doing drugs wasn't unhealthy. My first post in this thread actually says the opposite. Why are you telling me this?
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I was reaffirming my thesis.
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And lastly, we don't need a reason to do them, so there's really no point in attacking our "reason" for doing drugs. If you need a concrete and well developed reason for doing drugs, you're just showing me again that you don't know what you're talking about and don't understand recreational drug usage.
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I would contend that you always require a reason to do ANYTHING. I don't think even you agree with what you're saying. Somehow I think using drugs for fun is the same as saying that you use drugs for the reason to satisfy your desire for fun, or conversely, using drugs for the reason to satisfy any antecedent desire. Since you always have an antecedent desire when you do something as consciously to you as that, you most definately *always* have a reason. Whether or not that reason justifies you hurting your body is another story. However with much certainty I can say that YOUR given reasons for doing it do not.
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Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175938 is a reply to message #175921] |
Sat, 22 October 2005 15:17 |
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mrpirate
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| warranto wrote on Sat, 22 October 2005 15:58 |
As for the difference between imagining something, and experiancing it, I admit there is a difference' however, in my experiance it has only been a subtle, almost negligable, one. But then, I guess that is only me.
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This, perhaps, is where our favourite "crushed" argument applies. Speaking as someone who has spent some time as both a sober person, and a person on psychedelics, there is a world of difference between imagining the walls melting and moving in and out, and actually experiencing it.
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175949 is a reply to message #175237] |
Sat, 22 October 2005 16:38 |
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Kytten9
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Ok, why are people using the terminology Drugs to mean: illegal substances?
Coffee, coke, chocolate, headache tablets, over the counter remedies, cough medicine, tea, Red bull (on a major scale), alcohol, cigarettes..............all drugs and all completely legal some of which, despite the cynical views I've seen on here...are consumed on a daily basis by the majority (if not all) of the people who have replied to this topic.
Narcotics are the main group of illegal drugs and substances to which you all refer....
You are stupid and irresponsible if you take narcotics or other illegal substances
You were stupid and irresponsible if you used to take narcotics or other illegal substances (yes see my first post. I used to be stupid!)
You are not an idiot for consuming everyday drugs like caffeine, taurine, paracetamol for a headache or cough syrup for a cold....I'm just being picky and separating the definitions.
I do think that, the object of the post was to assess if anyone here smoked.....not whether or not we were addicted or dependent on it.
You have a God given right to be stupid. Please do not abuse this right!
n00bstories renegade server mod.
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175952 is a reply to message #175938] |
Sat, 22 October 2005 16:59 |
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Javaxcx
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Location: Canada, eh?
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| mrpirate wrote on Sat, 22 October 2005 18:17 |
This, perhaps, is where our favourite "crushed" argument applies. Speaking as someone who has spent some time as both a sober person, and a person on psychedelics, there is a world of difference between imagining the walls melting and moving in and out, and actually experiencing it.
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Not necessarily true (at least in regards to the argument of whether not lack of experience negates knowledge).
You can comprehend something in its totality without experiencing it. Geometry is a pretty simple example of this. You never experience a circle (you experience the possibility of a circle), but you comprehend that a circle is because you know that shy of anything else, a circle is a polygon with an infinite number of sides. The point is, in many (and validly) cases, you might be fully knowledgable of an action and its consequences (this is inconclusive, but the uncertainty is utterly negligable) prior to doing or not doing it. That is why we can say to you that doing drugs, or "illegal substances" (which isn't really accurate, but whatever) is stupid and be correct. The reasoning is flaunt thoughtout this thread, so I'm not going to say it again.
The bottom line is that having an experienced "frame of reference" is quite irrelevant, and that reason alone can determine that which is almost certain to be experienced. This means that the morality of the situation can also be reasoned, as well as the intelligablity (or lack thereof).
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[Updated on: Sat, 22 October 2005 17:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175976 is a reply to message #175237] |
Sat, 22 October 2005 21:32 |
ghost
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im not planing on dying early...
its that simple.yes i know i can die from something else but why take off 10 years of my life and ruin it with me getting some kind of infection?
you might as well enhale the smoke from a muffler for 1 week straight....yes,its the same thing
oh yeah... not to mention ur paying for a early death...
if u smoke ur losing alot of money in the long run 
so if u do smoke i wish u a happy birthday cause it could be ur last
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[Updated on: Sat, 22 October 2005 21:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175980 is a reply to message #175968] |
Sat, 22 October 2005 21:57 |
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warranto
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Location: Alberta, Canada
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| SuperMidget wrote on Sat, 22 October 2005 23:24 |
I just have one topic atm.
Warranto: I don't see your point...
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All I'm saying is that there have been people who have killed while on a high received from marijuana..
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People have been killed EATING POPCORN. People have been killed while on a rollercoaster, in a hot air balloon, underwater, even in their sleep.
There have been people who have been killed almost everyway imaginable (sorry for spelling, i need to sleep). So that makes no grounds for you to convince yourself that this is THAT bad.
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Yes, people have been killed in the process of doing those things, but they have not killed anyone as a result of doing those things.
The point is this: there have been instances where someone, who would not have done it under normal circumstances however, while delivering a pizza while being high, killed the person (if I remember the story correctly). This was something that was told to me by a person who I believe to be trustworthy. Had that person not been high, the murder would not have occured.
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #175989 is a reply to message #175952] |
Sun, 23 October 2005 00:00 |
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mrpirate
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| Javaxcx wrote on Sat, 22 October 2005 19:59 |
| mrpirate wrote on Sat, 22 October 2005 18:17 |
This, perhaps, is where our favourite "crushed" argument applies. Speaking as someone who has spent some time as both a sober person, and a person on psychedelics, there is a world of difference between imagining the walls melting and moving in and out, and actually experiencing it.
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Not necessarily true (at least in regards to the argument of whether not lack of experience negates knowledge).
You can comprehend something in its totality without experiencing it. Geometry is a pretty simple example of this. You never experience a circle (you experience the possibility of a circle), but you comprehend that a circle is because you know that shy of anything else, a circle is a polygon with an infinite number of sides. The point is, in many (and validly) cases, you might be fully knowledgable of an action and its consequences (this is inconclusive, but the uncertainty is utterly negligable) prior to doing or not doing it. That is why we can say to you that doing drugs, or "illegal substances" (which isn't really accurate, but whatever) is stupid and be correct. The reasoning is flaunt thoughtout this thread, so I'm not going to say it again.
The bottom line is that having an experienced "frame of reference" is quite irrelevant, and that reason alone can determine that which is almost certain to be experienced. This means that the morality of the situation can also be reasoned, as well as the intelligablity (or lack thereof).
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If you're going to tell me you have knowledge of what it's like, for example, to go on a mushroom trip, without ever having tried them, then you're unfortunately mistaken. Remember all the terrible changes those big, bad chemicals were making to the drug-user's brain? You can't have that kind of experience sober. And it'd be pretty tough to imagine what it would be like because it's impossible to describe what goes on during a mushroom trip. There's a lot more going on than just visuals. It's a lot easier to describe a circle than it is a psychedelic drug trip.
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| Re: Anyone here smoke? [message #176004 is a reply to message #175980] |
Sun, 23 October 2005 07:24 |
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SuperMidget
Messages: 465
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Location: Barrie, ON
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| warranto wrote on Sun, 23 October 2005 00:57 |
| SuperMidget wrote on Sat, 22 October 2005 23:24 |
I just have one topic atm.
Warranto: I don't see your point...
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All I'm saying is that there have been people who have killed while on a high received from marijuana..
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People have been killed EATING POPCORN. People have been killed while on a rollercoaster, in a hot air balloon, underwater, even in their sleep.
There have been people who have been killed almost everyway imaginable (sorry for spelling, i need to sleep). So that makes no grounds for you to convince yourself that this is THAT bad.
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Yes, people have been killed in the process of doing those things, but they have not killed anyone as a result of doing those things.
The point is this: there have been instances where someone, who would not have done it under normal circumstances however, while delivering a pizza while being high, killed the person (if I remember the story correctly). This was something that was told to me by a person who I believe to be trustworthy. Had that person not been high, the murder would not have occured.
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I personally do not agree with that story, weed usually makes you mellow, and it gets pretty hard to get upset while high.
The way you worded this: "All I'm saying is that there have been people who have killed while on a high received from marijuana.." implies that people were killed becuase they were 'too high' or something, so my bad, word your sentences better
Wanna fight? www.hobowars.com
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