Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life?
| Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life? [message #156330] |
Wed, 25 May 2005 05:42   |
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glyde51
Messages: 1827
Registered: August 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| gbull |
| SFE |
If it were the "War on terrorism", you could use that justification to attack any Asian country. Why Iraq?
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Because these people had more direct contact with those who committed the act. What was it again? $25,000 if you kill yourself for Allah? Fact is: Iraq embraced terrorists in its own country instead of at least making it look as if they were taking some sort of action to prevent them. You keep making us remind you of why we went to Iraq when its painfully aparent:
1.) Find Weapons of Mass Destruction - STILL PENDING
- There is alot of Desert out there. Also In the time it took the United States to mobilize they could have been moved to Syria.
2.)They Supported Terrorists
- If you don't see the facts between the former Iraqi government and their terrorist ties, then you are too stubborn to see the truth as of now.
3.) Liberate the Iraqi people
- Some say they don't want to be liberated. Man, they must really like being murdered, raped, and thrown into mass graves then.
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1) Find Osama - STILL PENDING
-Find the man that killed many innocent Americans using the amazingly few soldiers in Iraq!
:rolleyes:
No. Seriously. No.
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| Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life? [message #156363] |
Wed, 25 May 2005 09:52 |
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Toolstyle
Messages: 215
Registered: May 2004
Location: Manchester
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| j_ball430 |
The U.S. Intelligence may be the best in the world.
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Oh are we going to start telling jokes now? Ok Knock Knock...
| Aircraftkiller |
That's irrelevant to this thread.
Common fallacies of logic and rhetoric:
Ad hominem - attacking the arguer and not the argument.
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| Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life? [message #156398] |
Wed, 25 May 2005 13:17 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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| warranto |
| Crimson |
So, you can only refute one point? And neglect that the war is on TERROR, not Al-Qaeda?
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uhhh... what? Since when did I suggest otherwise?
All my posts in this thread have been about the initial topic about the war in Iraq, and tha tIraq had nothing to do with 9/11. How did that turn into me arguing that the war is not on terror?
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The War in Iraq IS the War on Terror, thus making this relevant.
I'm the bawss.
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| Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life? [message #156400] |
Wed, 25 May 2005 13:20 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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| j_ball430 |
| emperorz0 |
I think that USA wants Iraq great oil resources. There is about 70% of all world oil recources in the Iraq territory.
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How many fucking times do we have to tell you? THE WAR IS NOT FOR OIL. If the war was for oil, my fucking gas prices wouldn't be so damn high, now would they? We don't need Iraq's oil. Shit, the prices of our gas was LOWER before the war.
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I told that to a liberal psycho when I was at a Protest Warrior counter-protest and her screaming response was "OUR SOLDIERS ARE DYING AND ALL YOU CARE ABOUT IS GAS PRICES!!!!!1111" -- LOL
I'm the bawss.
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| Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life? [message #156479] |
Wed, 25 May 2005 17:00 |
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Ryan3k
Messages: 363
Registered: September 2004
Location: USA
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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| gbull |
Are you incinuating that you could have come up with a plan to have survellience over every inch of the Iraqi border before we even got there?
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Before we even got there?
What do you mean by that? When, exactly, did we "get there?" Is it when the first bombs were dropped?
Seriously, if you could give me an accurate estimate of when U.S. military activity of any sort began in Iraq (in other words, "[when we]...got there"), then you must have inside information.
If, that is, by "there," you are referring to Iraq, as a whole. Obviously, I assumed so.
Anyway, I was unaware, but I suppose pre-war reconnaissance was but a thing of my imagination. Honestly now, I think you are underestimating U.S. intelligence. If Saddam decided to start a WMD convoy of ANY sort, trust me, people wouldn't be arguing today about whether or not the war was justified, if you catch my drift.
Besides, come on! Keeping an eye on the Iraqi border? It's not like we're trying to do something outrageous like trying to spell out, say, the IBM logo, with Xenon atoms, right...?
OH WAIT.
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| Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life? [message #156504] |
Wed, 25 May 2005 18:41 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| gbull |
Because these people had more direct contact with those who committed the act. What was it again? $25,000 if you kill yourself for Allah? Fact is: Iraq embraced terrorists in its own country instead of at least making it look as if they were taking some sort of action to prevent them. You keep making us remind you of why we went to Iraq when its painfully aparent:
1.) Find Weapons of Mass Destruction - STILL PENDING
- There is alot of Desert out there. Also In the time it took the United States to mobilize they could have been moved to Syria.
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/12/wmd.search/
That one actually hasn't been pending for a while.
| gbull |
2.)They Supported Terrorists
- If you don't see the facts between the former Iraqi government and their terrorist ties, then you are too stubborn to see the truth as of now.
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How about you let me see your evidence?
| gbull |
3.) Liberate the Iraqi people
- Some say they don't want to be liberated. Man, they must really like being murdered, raped, and thrown into mass graves then.
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Considering the incredible number of innocent civilians killed by U.S. bombs and ground forces in Iraq, it seems as if they were better off with Saddam. All in the name of Freedom, though.
| bigjoe14 |
If any "rival clans" try to fight for the control of Iraq, they will come from the surrounding countries around Iraq. That's not really Civil War. Everything has been pretty damn nice within Iraq and it's citizens. The terrorist from the outside are the ones mucking it up for everyone else.
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Why would they come from outside the country again? All the Iraqi militants you see in the streets know someone who was killed by U.S. weapons. That's why there mad. Not for some dumbass obtuse reason like "they hate our freedoms".
| bigjoe14 |
How would you know it's in Iraq? It could be inside Iran, Cuba, or Russia for all you know.
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Because Iraqi militant groups probably won't be exporting 350 tons of the highest grade explosive they can possible get their hands on anytime soon.
| bigjoe14 |
Sorta like how Clinton sold U.S. Military intelligence to China to get campaign funds?
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Or rather, didn't return a campaign check from a mildly shady source.
| bigjoe14 |
Another excuse. If you're so worried about some crappy explosives, care to tell how you would like to take care of it?
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The only answer to this problem is not let 350 tons of RDx out into a country going through a civil war like Iraq. And if it does get out, don't let those who made the mistake have a chance to make it again. That's usually how things like this work.
| bigjoe14 |
Bullshit, You know that story caused all that violence. You're just trying to defend your liberal spin machine. Who cares if it's been running for a year? It still caused all kinds of problems. Newsweek published that story with no conformation whatsoever. A stupid move that cost innocent lives. I cannot believe you're trying to defend that peice of crap.
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No... This story has been everywhere EXCEPT U.S. presses for over a year now. You just know nothing, so I can understand you not knowing that.
By the way, turns out Newsweek was wrong about the source, but right about the story.
By the way, if you saw what Arabs read in the Middle East, this Newsweek story is the least of their concerns. At one point, al Jazeera seriously reported a story during the first Gulf War about how Allah had sent giant spider warriors out of the desert to drive away the infidel U.S. forces. A bunch of people fell for that one. The Bush administration is just after censorship here.
| jball |
The U.S. Intelligence may be the best in the world, but that doesn't mean that they can't be one step behind. This is one reason why we haven't gotten Osama yet.
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That and we undercut our military offensive in Afghanistan when we diverted much of our armed service's might to a phony war in Iraq.
| Crimson |
The War in Iraq IS the War on Terror, thus making this relevant.
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Yes, that is what mainstream media calls it. Kudos to you.
| Crimson |
I told that to a liberal psycho when I was at a Protest Warrior counter-protest and her screaming response was "OUR SOLDIERS ARE DYING AND ALL YOU CARE ABOUT IS GAS PRICES!!!!!1111" -- LOL
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There are whackos on both sides. Quite frankly, I'd be happier if people like glyde and emperorz weren't in this forum, since they undermine my argument.
EDIT[S]: Grammatical Errors
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
[Updated on: Wed, 25 May 2005 19:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life? [message #156517] |
Wed, 25 May 2005 19:41 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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| warranto |
| Crimson |
The War in Iraq IS the War on Terror, thus making this relevant.
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However, that still does not mean that Iraq had anything to do with the attack on the world trade center.
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That wasn't my point... based on the information available to me, Iraq, as a country, had nothing to do with the attack. Whether Iraq helped harbor those who helped plan or carry out the attack, whether Iraq's government (Saddam) aided and abetted terrorist attacks worldwide, THAT'S the real debate, and THAT'S what I posted a link about.
It's the same logic that says that executing Ted Bundy will stop serial killings. You can't just cut off one higher-up, even all of them. You have to make fundamental changes in the area to stop terrorism from breeding.
I'm the bawss.
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| Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life? [message #156519] |
Wed, 25 May 2005 19:54 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Crimson |
| warranto |
| Crimson |
The War in Iraq IS the War on Terror, thus making this relevant.
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However, that still does not mean that Iraq had anything to do with the attack on the world trade center.
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That wasn't my point... based on the information available to me, Iraq, as a country, had nothing to do with the attack. Whether Iraq helped harbor those who helped plan or carry out the attack, whether Iraq's government (Saddam) aided and abetted terrorist attacks worldwide, THAT'S the real debate, and THAT'S what I posted a link about.
It's the same logic that says that executing Ted Bundy will stop serial killings. You can't just cut off one higher-up, even all of them. You have to make fundamental changes in the area to stop terrorism from breeding.
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Heh, I see the miscommunication then. I'm speaking specifically about the War in Iraq, and your speaking about the broader war on terrorism.
I'm not trying to refute any of that, all I did was point out that Iraq (the government) was not involved with 9/11, All the rest of it is true as far as I'm concerned. Harboring, conspiring, funding, etc. I don't doubt that any of that happened.
If I was mistaken about the purpose of the original topic, as kinghigh1 simply spoke about the losses in the war being 1 in 20 so I assumed that was restricted to what is still happening in Iraq, then I appologise.
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| Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life? [message #156542] |
Thu, 26 May 2005 01:12 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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| warranto |
Heh, I see the miscommunication then. I'm speaking specifically about the War in Iraq, and your speaking about the broader war on terrorism.
I'm not trying to refute any of that, all I did was point out that Iraq (the government) was not involved with 9/11, All the rest of it is true as far as I'm concerned. Harboring, conspiring, funding, etc. I don't doubt that any of that happened.
If I was mistaken about the purpose of the original topic, as kinghigh1 simply spoke about the losses in the war being 1 in 20 so I assumed that was restricted to what is still happening in Iraq, then I appologise.
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How we can we assume anything from the incoherent original post to this thread?
I'm the bawss.
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| Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life? [message #156562] |
Thu, 26 May 2005 04:39 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Hydra |
All we need to do is give you enough rope; you hang yourself each time!
Here! Have some more rope! I'm sure you could turn that unsubstantiated article into a good Bush bashathon!
Go ahead, Tool! Have some fun before you break your own neck!
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That was actually a big deal, but since you're quite frankly boring me, I've had enough of your slanders for a while. Good day.
EDIT: Errors with quotation system
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
[Updated on: Thu, 26 May 2005 14:28] Report message to a moderator |
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| Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life? [message #156940] |
Fri, 27 May 2005 12:13 |
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Jecht
Messages: 3156
Registered: September 2004
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| SuperFlyingEngi |
| gbull |
2.)They Supported Terrorists
- If you don't see the facts between the former Iraqi government and their terrorist ties, then you are too stubborn to see the truth as of now.
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How about you let me see your evidence?
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.1) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2846365.stm
| BBC news |
Saddam's payments
$10,000 per family
$25,000 for family of a suicide bomber
$35m paid since September 2000
PALF figures
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| SuperFlyingEngi |
Considering the incredible number of innocent civilians killed by U.S. bombs and ground forces in Iraq, it seems as if they were better off with Saddam. All in the name of Freedom, though.
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http://www.cpa-iraq.org/pressreleases/20040224_mass_graves.html
| The Coalition Provisional Authority |
"We've already discovered just so far the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves,"
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Also, http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/05/new_mass_graves.html says 182,000 kurds are still unaccounted for
The first number of people found in mass graves(400,000) was a count in January 2004, since then we've found more.
So, are they still worse off with us then saddam?
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| Do You Think Fighting For President Bush Is Worth Your Life? [message #157081] |
Sat, 28 May 2005 04:13 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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SFE, take a step back and realize that not everything about the war is bad. The war was born out of illegality. And that's pretty much it. If want to get philosophical about it, there is no such thing as a war that isn't a crime no matter how justified anyone claims it to be.
The important thing now is to look at the country of Iraq and compare the situations of then with the situations of now. You're only 2 years into the campaign, and compared to say... WWII, you're going pretty slow, but the country is systematically being liberated (NOT annexxed for oil) and will likely spark off a healthty distant future for Iraq.
And as for those who scream oil or not oil-- consider what will happen when Iraq becomes a stable nation. It is HIGHLY probable that crude oil contracts will be formed with just about all 1st world nations. Take a wild guess how a great deal of the war is going to be paid for. But that does not mean the war is for oil. It would be utterly dependant on the state of the Iraqi people at that time. If people are pumping oil for the west while Iraq might, say, in the future have a stalemate battle with Iran on the border, then the argument might be made. But as it stands, the oil is a commedity that is of interest when the country is stable.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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