| Unbalance on Snow [message #124031] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 06:14  |
Spoony_old
Messages: 1105
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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OK, so arties cost 700 on Snow, whereas the GDI APC retains its usual price of 500. This causes a MASSIVE inbalance. Let me explain.
On non-defense maps, the absolutely best tactic GDI can use at the start of the game is the "airstrip block". This involves one player getting an APC between the Airstrip building and the Airstrip pad. If GDI can get there before Nod can afford an artillery, Nod's fucked. They can't buy tanks, all they can do is save for raveshaws, and by that time GDI will have med tanks in the Nod base. Game over.
On the official Westwood maps where the airstrip block is feasible (Complex, Volcano, Canyon and Walls Flying - not really Islands since it takes too long for an APC to get there), Nod has roughly a 50-50 chance of actually being able to afford an artillery before the GDI APC gets there. In fact it is a wise tactic for at least one Nod player to have the express goal of getting 450 credits as early as possible, and getting himself killed as SOON as he can afford that arty. Believe me, nine out of ten Complex games are actually won or lost due to this factor.
On Snow, Nod's chance of defending themselves against the airstrip block are, quite literally, zero. The only choice is to buy a Nod APC, which are basically good for little anyway.
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| Unbalance on Snow [message #124035] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 06:58  |
[RoC]Twix
Messages: 70
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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Agreed, you can't be messing with the credits/power of tanks. Even if you try and even it out, its still unbalanced.
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| Unbalance on Snow [message #124074] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 10:01 |
Alkaline
Messages: 1132
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
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Umm you say GDI apc cost 500, and not Arty cost 700 :rolleyes:
Both NOD and GDI apc cost 500, and both MRLS and ARTY cost 700, how is price an issue?
Also I have seen both sides win, its not an unbanlanced map.
http://www.UNRules.com
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| Unbalance on Snow [message #124087] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 10:39 |
trunkskgb
Messages: 214
Registered: September 2003
Karma: 0
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'sides, if you know this is happening and are in the strip....that APC can sit there all he wants. What matters is people inside to defend the building.
On a side note, that APC is just handing NOD points at that early stage in the game 
Pricing is not the issue.
Er...*cough* btw...
B2B is possible on Snow. I have yet to try it with CP1 released but if you make a right as you exit the Barracks and go towards the wall, you can shoot the Hand. Go figure huh? :rolleyes:
~Note: I do not b2b, hate that tactic, however I'm just saying this because it is possible.
My Renegade Maps
C&C Backstab || Rigdeline_b8 || C&C Halloween 2014 || Iron City (LE design) || Christmas Map (drafting)
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| Unbalance on Snow [message #124114] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 11:03 |
Spoony_old
Messages: 1105
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Alkaline |
Umm you say GDI apc cost 500, and not Arty cost 700 :rolleyes:
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That's "rollseyes" because...?
| Alkaline |
Also I have seen both sides win
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What does that prove? I'll tell you: GDI didn't airstrip block Nod. Or at least, didn't do it right. As it stands, GDI can guarantee a victory every single game on Snow.
| trunkskbg |
'sides, if you know this is happening and are in the strip....that APC can sit there all he wants. What matters is people inside to defend the building
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Read my initial post again, but this time slowly, and carefully. Pay particular attention to this part.
"They can't buy tanks, all they can do is save for raveshaws, and by that time GDI will have med tanks in the Nod base. Game over."
| trunkskbg |
On a side note, that APC is just handing NOD points at that early stage in the game
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The issue is not points. The issue is that GDI has effectively prevented Nod from using any vehicles, whereas GDI has free rein to walk all over Nod base with med tanks.
| trunkskbg |
Pricing is not the issue.
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It is, actually. If the Nod Artillery on Snow had its usual price, then GDI's airstrip block option would be: if not impossible, then rather unlikely. As it is, it is absolutely certain to succeed.
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| Unbalance on Snow [message #124358] |
Sun, 05 December 2004 09:35 |
trunkskgb
Messages: 214
Registered: September 2003
Karma: 0
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I understand what your saying spoony, and yes it has been done. However because the APC's cost both on the same team they both have the oppurtunity to buy them at the same time. So, it just really depends on how good your team that level plays together.
Sometimes, people just don't buy tanks :rolleyes: lol
Anyway, here's a pic of B2B...
**link removed**
Showing how to cheat is not permitted.
My Renegade Maps
C&C Backstab || Rigdeline_b8 || C&C Halloween 2014 || Iron City (LE design) || Christmas Map (drafting)
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| Unbalance on Snow [message #124461] |
Sun, 05 December 2004 15:54 |
Homey
Messages: 1084
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Thats assuming the apc has shitty aim, or multiple chaingunners
Homey
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| Unbalance on Snow [message #124488] |
Sun, 05 December 2004 18:01 |
Spoony_old
Messages: 1105
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Even if they buy laserchaingunners AND kill the APC, that's 450 credits less for most of Nod, whereas only one GDI player will have spent 500 credits. Result: everyone else on GDI will have meds whereas only a couple of Nod players will have tanks.
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| Unbalance on Snow [message #124553] |
Sun, 05 December 2004 23:20 |
stahlei
Messages: 34
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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| Aircraftkiller |
And the LCG\BH soldiers will still effectively destroy the tanks, earning credits and points in the process.
What's the problem here?
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LCG\BH are dead befor the apc is down.
If nod has 2 apc no Strip blocking is possible.
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| Unbalance on Snow [message #124623] |
Mon, 06 December 2004 11:02 |
Spoony_old
Messages: 1105
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Aircraftkiller |
And the LCG\BH soldiers will still effectively destroy the tanks, earning credits and points in the process.
What's the problem here?
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The problem is you've never played against a team who are actually co-ordinated
To answer Icedog's question, it wasn't by choice
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| Unbalance on Snow [message #124718] |
Mon, 06 December 2004 17:58 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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And you'd know, seeing as how you've been playing since 3 December of 2001. Since the days of World Leaders, (-WL-) the clan I was in, devastating the clan rankings.
I know how to play against organized teams. I've played with them plenty of times.
What I think you're missing here is the fact that the APC can do nothing if people are destroying it. Granted it may kill a few people, but the time it takes to get 200 credits (500 for APC, short trip to Airstrip through cave, 700 for Artillery, add it up... 2-4 credits a second) you'd already have a LCGBH or some sort of anti-armor unit. You can't expect to use the same strategy on every level and assume it will always work. Things change, people change, levels change, get used to it and adapt to win. I had no trouble with playing on Nod with the Snow level a few days ago, and when it was first released.
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| Unbalance on Snow [message #124727] |
Mon, 06 December 2004 18:36 |
Spoony_old
Messages: 1105
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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WL wouldn't keep their base alive for ten minutes against today's BR, FE or LIGHT
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| Unbalance on Snow [message #125069] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 18:52 |
[RoC]Twix
Messages: 70
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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| =[DT |
=gbull=[L]=]who is this BR clan, ive heard of them being a well ranked WOL clan, do they have a website? i'd like to get a crack at em. I was in the #3 ranked H3LLFIR3 WOL clan back in the day, but now i have a clan thats much more 1337 than that H3LLFIR3 clan ever was.
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DT sucks.
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