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| Cheaters & RenGuard? [message #109850] |
Tue, 24 August 2004 13:39   |
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YSLMuffins
Messages: 1144
Registered: February 2003
Location: Moved a long time ago (it...
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Moderator - Mod Forum |
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The only reason why servers aren't populated is because there are servers without Renguard. If this attitude is kept up, people will just search for another server. But when there are no more servers without Renguard, players will finally start to use the program. So if you think about it, if you blame Renguard for depopulating your servers, you are actually blaming yourself, because you are contributing to the problem.
Renguard is flawed? The system doesn't block all cheats? I don't buy it. It's the moderating system that is flawed. How the hell are you supposed to pick out the cheater that randomly blows up vehicles on both teams, without a score jump at all? Or when beacons are magically disarmed? The ability to ban such obvious and idiotic cheaters only supports a false sense of security. A smart cheater isn't as much of an oxymoron as you think. It's the smart cheaters that can lurk past the moderating team.
That's why I haven't played in so long--I can't trust the majority of the teammates and opponents I don't know well to have such good sportsmanship, and it's just not enjoyable anymore. I am really itching to start up Renegade again, though, but if servers continue to choose to not require Renguard on their servers or only half solutions, then cheaters will still run rampant.
The only problem I see with Renguard is the SSC, and I just hope that this is resolved soon.
-YSLMuffins
The goddess of all (bread products)
See me online as yslcheeze
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| Cheaters & RenGuard? [message #109859] |
Tue, 24 August 2004 14:19 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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Moderators are great at kicking obvious cheaters like ones witnessed blowing up a vehicle in one shot and the like. The REAL problem in Renegade today is the non-obvious cheaters. The ones that use bones.ini or object.ddb hacks that only give them a SLIGHT advantage. An example...yesterday I was playing in a non-RG server...I was a GDI soldier...full health, and met a Nod soldier in the tunnel...he had just a tiny sliver of red health left...could have spit on him and he would have died...we both started firing simulataneously. I killed him, which was not unexpected, but what WAS unexpected was that he killed me too! We both fell dead and said "lol"...but meanwhile Im thinking "why the hell didnt he die first?". I know that 3 bullets directly to my head would kill me, but one bullet in his foot should have taken him out...
Did I miss the first few shots?
Were his shots doing more damage than they should?
Was he using bones.ini so that his body shots counted as head shots?
If it were an RG server, there is no wondering anytime you die under questionable circumstances. I have seen people post in various forums, IRC, in-game chat etc that they prefer subtle cheats to the "OMG IM BLOWING UP EVERYTHING UNTIL I GET KICKED" tactic.
Think about this:
1. A repair gun that repairs 10% faster than normal.
2. Bullets that do 10% more damage than normal
3. Being able to see stealth from 600 meters
4. Having ALTERNATE fires for specific weapons that are one-shot kill
If you had all of the above....could any mod, or any player on your team notice you were cheating? Can anyone really tell that your tank is repairing that much quicker than the guy you are battling? Probably not but guess who will win the confrontation every time...the cheater.
Even if you are suspected of cheating, since you have your cheat weapons on the alt-fire, you can easily pass any "shoot me in the foot" tests and the like that mods perform on suspected cheaters.
How many times have you been sniped while stealth, or seen when you think you shouldn't have?
Its these subtle cheaters that are the true threat to fair gameplay. At least when someone is blowing up everything like that idiot in the video, he gets kicked and you think the game is fair again. These subtle cheaters never get noticed unless they admit it...so there you are busting your ass trying to help your team win the game, thinking its a fair fight...but all along the outcome is allready determined if there are undetectable cheaters in the game.
They WILL win...thats why they are using the subtle cheats...to win. The guys like in that video dont care about winning...they just want to piss people off...you can tell that guy thinks very highly of himself and he totally gets off on wreaking havoc and making people angry at having the game ruined. The subtle cheaters are a different animal. They don't want anyone to know they are cheating...they want to be sneaky, they want to win. Maybe they like being MVP, or having people think they are really good. Maybe they like killing people most of the time so they can say "haha I pwned you"...maybe they just like the thrill of knowing they have a secret advantage. Who knows, but I can assure you that people ARE using these subtle cheats, and there is NO way they can be stopped, except for either using RenGuard, or some sort of server-side code which examined the location, rate of fire, and damage level of every projectile fired.
RenGuard stops every cheat that guy in that video is using, but more importantly it blocks the cheats that you are NOT seeing. The ones that your teammate standing right next to you could be using and you not know about.
The #1 reason that non RG servers seem to be populated more than RG servers is that gamers are lazy...its nothing personal to any one of them, its just the nature of people in general, that if they can play something without downloading or installing, they will take the path of least resistance and play somewhere else. If Renegade did not have an auto-updater built in to update it to 1.037, I can guarantee there would be a lot of people still hosting and playing the unpatched version 
Sadly theres not much we can do to change human behavior, but BHS will do everything we can to make the installation and use of RG as easy as possible. Our main goals are securing fair gameplay, fixing bugs, and adding majority-approved enhancements.
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| Cheaters & RenGuard? [message #109957] |
Tue, 24 August 2004 21:35 |
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mac
Messages: 1018
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Administrator/General |
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What might be needed are more reasons for server admins to run RenGuard. CP1 is a good way to promote that
Preparing a core patch1 info site mainly for server admins, which tells them the advantages of having CP1-enabled clients, which typically all use renguard. It'll have a server list where interested server admins can sign in, so others see how many like it.
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danpaul88: buggy bugs brenbot because buggy befriends brainlessness
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| Cheaters & RenGuard? [message #109987] |
Wed, 25 August 2004 05:03 |
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terminator 101
Messages: 822
Registered: March 2003
Location: Toronto
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Question: If many people are lazy to download the RenGuard, whouldn't it be possible to make the renguard an auto-download? Just like when you join any Half Life or UT servers, it automatically downloads any mods, maps that are on the server, and if you don't want to have the mod, you can stop the download, but you will not be able to play on that server. This sort of works like a virus, except it does no harm.
"It is time you saw the future, while you still have human eyes"
Cheaters only Cheat themselves!
so
Hasta la vista, baby!
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| Cheaters & RenGuard? [message #110839] |
Fri, 27 August 2004 03:11 |
JPNOD
Messages: 807
Registered: April 2004
Location: Area 51
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Fastc0nn is probly going to run RG again, Id say other large servers folow!
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| Cheaters & RenGuard? [message #110907] |
Fri, 27 August 2004 07:42 |
genetix
Messages: 392
Registered: July 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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revnuke is right. Since I saw this movie posted I have seen more and more of the cheats the site provides in renegade games.
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| Cheaters & RenGuard? [message #111335] |
Sat, 28 August 2004 08:26 |
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YSLMuffins
Messages: 1144
Registered: February 2003
Location: Moved a long time ago (it...
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Moderator - Mod Forum |
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It's one thing to be ignorant, but it's another to be apathetic.
-YSLMuffins
The goddess of all (bread products)
See me online as yslcheeze
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