Home » Renegade Discussions » Mod Forum » It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game.
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991567] |
Sun, 17 November 2002 18:28   |
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I disagree with some of aircraftkiller's comments.
Modifying the scripts isn't the be-all and end-all (I'm not knocking Johnathan and Dante's efforts here). It's still nothing like the level of modification you can get with the game source provided by companies like Valve, id and Epic. That's why their games have such a large modding community.
Remember Westwood's mod college? Where they invited a bunch of different mod developers to come and look at the engine? What happened to the mods that were due to come from that? No source code. Without it, you're very limited in what you can do, even with modifications to scripts.dll
For example - for us to make our Eradicators mod for Renegade, we'd need to be able to have two separate HUDs (one for each side), proper auto-teaming that takes into account the imbalanced sides (Eradicators has unbalanced team numbers), allow us to add new weapons with abilities that aren't natively in the engine (EMP gun that temporarily disables armour, tagged missiles, heavy rifle that can't be fired while moving), and that's just for starters.
None (or very little) of this is possible for Renegade, whereas it's all possible in Half-Life, Quake (1, 2, and 3) and Unreal/Tournament/2003 simply because their game code is exposed.
So it's certainly not laziness on our part - I make maps, models and textures, and we have two talented programmers, but we're not going to fight with an engine that doesn't support some fairly basic features.
If Westwood had released some code, there would be more "proper" mods. They didn't, so there aren't. You can't blame the community for that.
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991566] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 17:37 |
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You really don't know what their custom scripts can do, from what you're saying.
Let me get this across to you in a simple manner:
THE SCRIPTS DANTE AND JONATHAN ARE DOING CAN DO MORE THAN YOU CAN BELIEVE. YOU CAN DO ALMOST ANYTHING WITH THE GAME ENGINE UTILIZING THOSE SCRIPTS THEY DESIGN.
There, your entire argument shut down... Now, back to my point:
If this game dies, it's because of a lack of support and intelligence from the community, not from Westwood Studios.
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991564] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 17:58 |
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quote:
Originally posted by steggyd:
Another one of Ack's attempts to rid Renegade completely of anyone who may compete with him? BTW, I am thinking of making a mod right now. Does anyone want to join my team? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Don't be a moron, read what I wrote and don't put words in my mouth.
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991563] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 06:00 |
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it not lack of talent and the comunitys fault if the game goes down its the fault of westwood making a game saying they will put allsorts in it but then all you get is a lame single player and a repetitive mutiplayer game the ability to totaly convert the game comes down to the fack that only 2 people know how to edit the scripts that most ppl need to do mods like im doing a mod for it to end up the way i want i would need to totaly change the pt system and with out knowing how to make my own scripts and no1 sharing the knolage of how to edit them there will be alot of ppl make mods but then they cant get them to work to the way they origonaly planed so they just quit at doing it as a half made mod is rubbish acording to you like i asked on here for help b4 and all i got was ppl telling me to search the forums or ppl like ack telling you if you cant do that you shouldnt mod so share what you knwo then ppl can make better mods.
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991561] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 06:43 |
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I'll agree with ACK on this, customs scripts can do looooooooooooooooooooooots.
Did you know that you can make MCVs with just text scripts?! Or make buildings pop up from the ground?! Without a modded scripts.dll? Just text scripts?!
It was said to be impossible. Maybe I should go get {NRG}Phantom over here....
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991560] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 07:39 |
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quote:
THE SCRIPTS DANTE AND JONATHAN ARE DOING CAN DO MORE THAN YOU CAN BELIEVE. YOU CAN DO ALMOST ANYTHING WITH THE GAME ENGINE UTILIZING THOSE SCRIPTS THEY DESIGN.
Ok, but drop the condescending tone. I'm not a 12-year-old with pretensions of competence.
quote:
There, your entire argument shut down...
Not really. Sure, it may be possible, but look at the timescale. If Westwood had released code, we could have had our mod released by now.
quote:
Now, back to my point:
If this game dies, it's because of a lack of support and intelligence from the community, not from Westwood Studios.
And if Westwood had released the source, then mods would have come a lot faster, rather than so long after the game was released. The community owes Westwood nothing.
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991559] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 07:50 |
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quote:
Originally posted by PiMuRho:
quote:
THE SCRIPTS DANTE AND JONATHAN ARE DOING CAN DO MORE THAN YOU CAN BELIEVE. YOU CAN DO ALMOST ANYTHING WITH THE GAME ENGINE UTILIZING THOSE SCRIPTS THEY DESIGN.
Ok, but drop the condescending tone. I'm not a 12-year-old with pretensions of competence.
quote:
There, your entire argument shut down...
Not really. Sure, it may be possible, but look at the timescale. If Westwood had released code, we could have had our mod released by now.
quote:
Now, back to my point:
If this game dies, it's because of a lack of support and intelligence from the community, not from Westwood Studios.
And if Westwood had released the source, then mods would have come a lot faster, rather than so long after the game was released. The community owes Westwood nothing.
The community never owed Westwood anything to begin with, so that's pretty much another moot point.
Westwood wasn't the one to decide about the source, if you actually paid attention to what happened... It was EA's decision. With attitudes like yours, modding games isn't possible because you expect everything to be set out for you. Sometimes the best things aren't the easiest to learn... Perhaps you should remember that when you go modify another ****ty game engine.
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991557] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 08:13 |
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quote:
Westwood wasn't the one to decide about the source, if you actually paid attention to what happened... It was EA's decision.
Are you actually capable of civil conversation?
I'm fully aware of what happened over the source. I was very heavily involved in Renegade since the beta (not just testing), and I've always kept a very close eye on things.
quote:
With attitudes like yours, modding games isn't possible because you expect everything to be set out for you.[quote]
And you're basing that on what exactly? If you think making mods for other engines is easy, you're mistaken. Nothing is "set out for you", and it still requires the same level of skill to make as a Renegade mod does.
[quote] Sometimes the best things aren't the easiest to learn... Perhaps you should remember that when you go modify another ****ty game engine.
Considering I had to learn 3D Studio for my job, I'm well aware that the best things aren't the easiest to learn. Obviously, Renegade isn't the only engine out there. Insulting other engines is a tad childish, don't you think?
You know, just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't give you some kind of right to insult them, or make them automatically wrong. Your opinions are only worth as much as anyone else's.
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991555] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 08:50 |
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well... these games get harder and longer to midify every time i see a new game. since the 2d games to th 3d games it has always goten harder. and now there aren't nearly as much as people playing renegade as there were before. i took a look it was about 56 thousand online that had a acount and not recruited. i agree ACK and i do think that there are to many said than done but they do take time and determiination. yet i am on the RA2 mod team and have been putting every secound i have into it (not like some of my team ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ) but i try my best. mabye a good idea for westwood to do is release the mod tools very shortly after or before the game was to come out. this would have its disadvantages but it would aslo have its advantages. as for westwood no liking this because you could run around and see stuff that are in the game... thats another problem, but not mine . but all in all i do think that there should be more mods. but...
P.S. little money would determine us ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) ...but i know that wont happen ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991554] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 08:58 |
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o and btw... we ar the paying customer. not westwood. if it is anyones fault it not ours. we payed for this game. the makers were payed. ea was payed. the community wasn't. you can see were the determination is missing.
i like money
i have little money
i want money
thats were u come in
[ November 18, 2002, 16:00: Message edited by: avroaero ]
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991553] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 11:39 |
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I wonder if anyone actually read my post, maybe it was too long. Ack first off you have done spectacular things for the Renegade community. Not just the modding community either with your maps you extend the game play value of a game that would otherwise eventually run stale, however your comments do little to encourage new mod teams. Like I said earlier while it is great that many key figures have popped up and have taken the initiative and have paved the way for renegade modding (you, Dante and hundreds of people all of whom deserve my respect but I can't remember their names). It is also important that this forum be used to help those that are capable but currently uneducated. I myself have am guilty of not answering questions that I myself deem n00bish or simply idiotic. However simple answers of "search the forum, noob) only demoralize those that could eventually contribute great things to the community. The search option on the WW forums is hard to use and anyone searching for pertanent information can often not find it. We need to find a way to provide a diffinitive site perhapes with many tutorials and faqs. Also if you learn of something that might be of use to others, contribute it. There is far too much back-biting and fueding between the different mod groups. Which is evident in the thread "The News of ZERO: Stolen Property" where a mod maker refuses to realease any of his work because it might get stolen? I think that many sensible people would agree that we should start a project to assemble a collection comperable to the collection in RenHelp, perhapes Dante's new mod exchange could be the answer. This way people can be helped whilst not annoying those that take offense, like ACK here.
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991551] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 12:12 |
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well i gota agree with ack on this one, ive sorta fallen out of the love for renegade, the only real reaosn thats keeping me here is the actual mods, liek the ra1 mod and the reborn teams, most of the others r just either not worth even downloading, or just really suck, most of em r, "first map! hope u like" or jsut the same as most maps exept a extra building here, extra unit there, no one plays them online,
cant wait till the ra1 mod comes out those r the mods that ppl look forward to, how long is this mod taking already?? close to a year is it?? sumthing liek that, that is a true mod, sumthing i would actualy downlaod and play on the net, and so would other ppl, i dont belive any1 of u that say you think ack stuff is crap and you wouldent d/l his stuff, dont lie now anyways, lets here the next flame.......
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991550] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 16:13 |
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quote:
I wonder if anyone actually read my post,
JT bob, use paragraphs and white spaces (or green/black). It is harder to read a page of straight foward text then it is with a page with paragraphs and white spaces.
quote:
o and btw... we ar the paying customer. not westwood. if it is anyones fault it not ours. we payed for this game. the makers were payed. ea was payed. the community wasn't. you can see were the determination is missing.
i like money
i have little money
i want money
thats were u come in
Yea we paid westwood/ea for this game, so get back to work EA/westwood *WHIP CRACK*
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991549] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 19:38 |
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I haven't been on these boards for a LONG time, but I heard of this topic so I stopped by.
I left long ago, because frankly the situation looked hopeless, westwood had just told us that the source scripts were not going to be released and my heart dropped, also the lack of interest from the community of westwood idiots turned me off also.
90\% of the community is kids, and stupid ones that annoy the living \%#&! out of me. Sure a stupid mod with stupid vehicles and stupid crap and stupid maps and general BS gets praised, but my adventure of making ALL maps with ramps and aircraft garnered no interest at all. I just didn't get it, how much fun would it be to have the option to fly in ALL maps!? I guess not much, it excited me, but me only. Its not a total conversion, but I mean still common aircraft on every map! I was trying to do this just weeks after the aircraft maps were introduced.
It was a combination, of both the communitys lack of general enthusiasm, and westwoods lack of giving us a lot to work with. I guess some still kept at it and figured out how to make some nice scripts, thats awesome. I commend you also for your efforts ack, but im not comming back, this all took too long and to me this community is now somewhat small.
Good luck, just thought I would throw in my story to try and explain. Sure NOW there is a lot you can do, but it came somewhat late, things fell apart before they could be taped back together.
I was really looking forward to the silent strike cs type mod to renegade, looks like that got nowhere. Sad...
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991548] |
Mon, 18 November 2002 19:47 |
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Also a couple other things:
Mod sharing online is broken, its completely crappy, this ditracts from the usuability of mods a LOT, because not having the ability of people downloading your mod online OR EVEN SEEING YOUR SERVER is just horrible.
Current westwood maps editing, we can't because way back we didnt have the gmax files, only the commando files and you can only do half as much with them. Unless they released the gmax files, which I bet they didn't.
You can do anything with those custom scripts they made? I doubt that, as long as we don't know the code that is used in the game, its like coding with a blindfold.
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991546] |
Tue, 19 November 2002 00:26 |
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quote:
The Renegade modding tools are _the_ crappiest tools ever created. Give me UnrealED/Worldcraft/Q3Radient/Anything else over ****ing Gmax ANYDAY.
They may be easier to use than Gmax/3D Studio, but they're nowhere near as powerful. More recent game engines are moving away from the simple brush style levels, and using "proper" modelling packages to construct levels.
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991545] |
Tue, 19 November 2002 06:43 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Every Silent Victim:
Also a couple other things:
Mod sharing online is broken, its completely crappy, this ditracts from the usuability of mods a LOT, because not having the ability of people downloading your mod online OR EVEN SEEING YOUR SERVER is just horrible.
Current westwood maps editing, we can't because way back we didnt have the gmax files, only the commando files and you can only do half as much with them. Unless they released the gmax files, which I bet they didn't.
You can do anything with those custom scripts they made? I doubt that, as long as we don't know the code that is used in the game, its like coding with a blindfold.
Sure it is... That's why the Renegade Alert has functioning Helipads and Naval Yards\Submarine Pens... But everyone thought that was impossible.
That's why we're going to have different style beacons without the sky animations... But everyone thought that was impossible too.
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| It's about time you stop talking and start modding the game. [message #-991544] |
Tue, 19 November 2002 06:54 |
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quote:
Originally posted by aircraftkiller2001:
quote:
Originally posted by Every Silent Victim:
Also a couple other things:
Mod sharing online is broken, its completely crappy, this ditracts from the usuability of mods a LOT, because not having the ability of people downloading your mod online OR EVEN SEEING YOUR SERVER is just horrible.
Current westwood maps editing, we can't because way back we didnt have the gmax files, only the commando files and you can only do half as much with them. Unless they released the gmax files, which I bet they didn't.
You can do anything with those custom scripts they made? I doubt that, as long as we don't know the code that is used in the game, its like coding with a blindfold.
Sure it is... That's why the Renegade Alert has functioning Helipads and Naval Yards\Submarine Pens... But everyone thought that was impossible.
That's why we're going to have different style beacons without the sky animations... But everyone thought that was impossible too.
Renegade Alert needs to stop doing the SIMPLE stuff and get on to the harder stuff
As for not being able to do anything with scripts: So what? You can do 999999999999999999... things WITHOUT scripts!!! You can make deployables and MCVs with TEXT SCRIPTS made with NOTEPAD
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