Home » Renegade Discussions » Tactics and Strategies » my observation...
| my observation... [message #-978669] |
Wed, 13 March 2002 12:03  |
|
|
|
it seems to me that there are way too many games i play in in which one side or the other(usually the enemy side..lol) wins the game in well under 10 minutes. and i'm talking on maps with defenses as well as without. i've seen teams that operate so well i question whether or not this is really a random selection of players. is it possible for someone to set up a server with side switching turned off that can stack the deck with the best rated players? i know that this is griping, but it's happened just too many times in my experience not to at least question it. and i'm not one of those guys that plays this thing 24/7 either so the number of times i see that sort of quick victory should be few in a truly random game. at least that's my opinion...
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978668] |
Wed, 13 March 2002 12:38  |
|
|
I'll tell you, I've been on BOTH sides of this situation. Sometimes I'm truckin' along, then BAM, there's the **** enemy at the gates tearing our stuff up!
But, I've also happened to jump on teams where at least four of us instantly start to gell, for whatever reason. And I'll tell you, if you can get four people, JUST FOUR, to start out the game working together, you get like the hundered monkey effect. People suddenly want to start helping you out, and asking "Hey, what can I do?" I think (myself included), it's so easy to just give up trying to do anything but just run out there and flail because of the lack of teamwork, that it doesn't take much to descend into chaos, but when you witness people on your team working together, you don't want to be left out, so you do what monkey do and join the team, so to speak.
But I have been in those magic games where, unplanned, peeps start really gelling.
I've begun trying to just find those four folks in each game who'll work together.
More often then not, other people get pulled along by the wake, and form a decent impromtu team.
Now, I don't think these instant magic teams would stand a chance against an actual pre-organized team..... 
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978667] |
Wed, 13 March 2002 12:50 |
|
|
|
maybe true and it's hard to believe that stacked decks can occur. and after several minutes i could believe that really good players may organize a good squad to act so cohesively. but i was just a few minutes ago in a game where no less than 8-10 nod players were in the tunnel together at the very start of the game. i'm talking less than 30 seconds after it begins! i doubt any player could organize such a squad that soon with random players.. i'm sorry, but i think something is rotten here.. i'm going to start recording the names of the servers where i see these "magic" teams and just sit and observe how often it happens. i'll let ya know...
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978666] |
Wed, 13 March 2002 13:11 |
|
|
|
Hah! You think you've got it bad! I was in a you choose server. You pick and switch your team and such. It was six on one! Six guys against me! It was actually fun. Lots of guys to kill, but eventually they got me.
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978665] |
Wed, 13 March 2002 13:15 |
|
|
|
Lol.. that's a good one! i know it's probably just b*tching on my part, but i'm tired of being on the wrong end of the other teams great teamplay.. if it's just that, then so be it. but i'm not convinced that all servers that are set for random player selection are really on the up and up..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978662] |
Wed, 13 March 2002 16:44 |
|
|
|
Yeah its irritating when you are up against a team that knows on what maps what to do from the very start, but hey, you will eventually learn the best opening moves and begin doing them as well. People are learning the maps just like eventually people had Under memorized so well they could shell the Nod airstrip blindfolded. I think the most key thing you can do is keep communicating with your team. I was playing City on Nod with about 5 other people and we weren't getting anywhere. One guy said that if we would let the GDI harvester live he would sneak in behind the harvester and blow the GDI powerplant. Problem was, several of our team members would blow up the harvester anyway, and not pay attention to him. So another guy started repeating what the first guy planned, then I started, until finally we convinced everyone to go along with the orders. So they backed off the harvester, he snuck in, and down goes the power plant. Just have to keep talking to your team, I always report any armor movements I see, its a lot easier to prepare for a flame rush if someone reports them when they first exit the enemy base. 
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978661] |
Wed, 13 March 2002 20:55 |
|
|
|
well some of you are convincing me that maybe it is possible for good teamwork to happen without the stacked deck theory. d@mn, i guess i'm just going to pay more attention to the comm traffic. i do get a bit of tunnel vision when it comes to fps games. and believe me i know there are individual players who can hand me my @$$ on a plate one on one any day.. hmmmm anyway, thanks to all who commented. gives me something to think about..
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978660] |
Wed, 13 March 2002 21:59 |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by zukkov:
it seems to me that there are way too many games i play in in which one side or the other(usually the enemy side..lol) wins the game in well under 10 minutes. and i'm talking on maps with defenses as well as without.
I wish Westwood would come out with a patch and totally disable "TEAM REMIX". This morning was playing NOD and GDI was all teamwork, the NOD players did not know the meaning of teamwork. Was using TECH and mining the tunnels on the UNDER map and gotten base under attack and checked the listing K-key and noticed am only one as NOD player. Rest of the morons must of jump ship, naturally I quit the server. Personally I prefer to play as GDI on a team but it is so hard to find servers that have Team Change on and Team Remix off. And the number of moron's, tank stealers who refuses to buy thier own tanks using swear words (sometimes wish friendly fire was on so I can use the C4 on stolen tank than shoot them in the head with pistol), runs off doing thier own thing, sometimes I enter a game and there are no engineers in sight. It has gotten so bad that I think near 98\% of the players online on WOL are non-teamplayers and rest 2\% are teamplayers. A suggestion is to start a clan for Teamplayers only. I would not mind joining such a clan if one can be found. I like being on team, even sometimes do mind losing to another team, but hate really hate losing to a team when your own teams are moron's and do not like to use teamwork and they cuss and swear at you. Even gotten banned from sever for suggesting teamwork. (Sorry never did write down the name of said server). End of ranting.....
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978659] |
Wed, 13 March 2002 22:37 |
|
|
|
sorry if i've kinda hogged my own post, but there was something else bothering me and i couldn't put my finger on it til now. if the teams are randomly chosen, then odds say that most of us should be on the winning team close to 50\% of the time. i can understand the really good ones having a better percentage than that, but i believe they represent a small percentage of the overall mix of players. besides, they should cancel each other out alot too. i'm talking about the overall win/loss percentage that an average player should expect, regardless of their skill level. so if that's true why do i for instance have so low of a win percentage? just bad luck? do 70\% of the time i just have the misfortune of being on the team with morons? i'll admit that i'm not a great fps player, i prefer the rts games to fps, but i really like this game. it has a flavor never before seen in a fps type game. and it supports team work like no other. that's great. but regardless of how bad i am(world's worst gamer as my signature says), i should have a much closer win/loss ratio than what i do...
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978658] |
Wed, 13 March 2002 23:20 |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by zukkov:
sorry if i've kinda hogged my own post, but there was something else bothering me and i couldn't put my finger on it til now. if the teams are randomly chosen, then odds say that most of us should be on the winning team close to 50\% of the time. i can understand the really good ones having a better percentage than that, but i believe they represent a small percentage of the overall mix of players. besides, they should cancel each other out alot too. i'm talking about the overall win/loss percentage that an average player should expect, regardless of their skill level. so if that's true why do i for instance have so low of a win percentage? just bad luck? do 70\% of the time i just have the misfortune of being on the team with morons? i'll admit that i'm not a great fps player, i prefer the rts games to fps, but i really like this game. it has a flavor never before seen in a fps type game. and it supports team work like no other. that's great. but regardless of how bad i am(world's worst gamer as my signature says), i should have a much closer win/loss ratio than what i do...
I also try to advoid jumping into games where there are lots of high number scores high triple digits and upward. (if they are on the oppossing side that is). I try to do the best I can but sometimes that is not enough when dealing morons who refuses to learn about FPS games. I saw another post on another Renegade forum where a poster suggested that majority of morons here are not used to FPS games and thier thinking is still in the 2D RTS mode.
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978657] |
Wed, 13 March 2002 23:23 |
|
|
well, this coul be explicated by the maps. Even if they are well balanced, some are a little more toward GDI, other toward NOD. Exemple: Under is a GDI map, cause they have more armor to take the defences face to face, and can shoot the airstrip and rafinery without being shot at by the obelisk, a thing that NOD can't do with the AGT. On maps with no base defences, GDI have a little advantage in the biginning, but as the game continue, and your wallet grows, NOD gets the adventage because of stealth units. Theses differences won't always change the game, cause proper teamwork can nulify them. But being in the "wrong" side of the maps could explain a 10\% you didn't understand....
Hope it helps!
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978656] |
Thu, 14 March 2002 04:12 |
|
|
|
once again, thanks to all who replied. there are certainly some good players here that don't believe in stacked decks and bad luck. maybe i should b*tch less and just enjoy the game for what it is. anyway, my friend and i are playing tonight and are just going to observe the teamwork. for once i really hope we're on different teams!
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978655] |
Thu, 14 March 2002 12:46 |
|
|
|
ok, after extensive research this evening(and losing 5 straight games with "random" team mixing. it was so bad that my friend actually said he hoped we would stay on opposite sides through out the evening!), i've decided the conspiracy theory is valid, but limited... to me that is.. it seems westwood/ea has it in for me. don't know why? i'm just you're below average player minding my own business. maybe by freak accident i killed one of the top dogs at ww or ea in a game one night. maybe they remembered me. and just as a sniper vows revenge when he gets sniped, they are out to get me. or perhaps i am SO bad as to actually cause the entire team to act like morons, running to and fro saying "zukkov is on our side, we're doomed we're doomed! hurry and blow our base so we can lose and get it over with!" and the opposite is true of the other side. my "coordination dampening field" which makes my side a chinese fire drill also makes the worst player on the other side suddenly think "hey, zukkov is over there and we're gonna win, so i'll just buy a beacon and blow their base single handed". and he's transformed into an unstoppable top rated player(i swear he has a cape and the letter S stamped into his uniform) that out runs our speediest bullets and even if they hit him they bounce off harmlessly. he rushes past the base defenses as if they weren't there, kills me on the way to the pp or tf, and blows it while our engies stand there saying "hey, what's that weird shaped object there on the ground?" while shaking and scratching their heads(though not at the same time of course). naturally he steals a flamer or mammy and runs me over just as the game closes. the victory screen no longer says nod or gdi wins, but rather zukkov loses(AGAIN!).. sorry if this was a long rant, but i just had to get it off my chest. thank you for reading it.. lol
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978654] |
Fri, 15 March 2002 04:22 |
|
|
LMAO!!!!
Zukkov, I'm gonna look at the names of my fellow players every time I join a game, and if I see you on my team, I'm just gonna give up right then.
(If I see you on the opposing team, I'll make it my business to hunt you down!!)No, really, I wonder if it's just probability? You know, like if you toss a coin 800 times, it's likely to have a number of runs of heads, or tails. You might be that one unluck sob out of the thousands playing who's getting the unlucky streak? But, I still notice that sometimes a base can just be toast before I've even had the chance to buy a lousy tech or hotwire....
sometimes the deck seems stacked.
It's when it's stacked in your favor that it can be a real blast!  
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978653] |
Fri, 15 March 2002 20:36 |
|
|
|
LOL Trust me zukkov, it goes away eventually. Some days you get your @ss served to you on a plate no matter how many games you play, other days you're the waiter...
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978652] |
Sat, 16 March 2002 20:38 |
|
|
|
A lot of this may seem like a conspiracy but it is actually just logic. If you are on a losing team you are more likely to leave the game. If you are winning then you have fun and keep going. This means that when you join new games, unless the game is neck and neck, you will join the smaller, losing side. Then in the next game it starts up with the same team on one side and all the downhearted losers on the other side! The only way to solve this is to have team shuffling so that the good people get split up.
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978651] |
Sat, 16 March 2002 23:06 |
|
|
|
yes i've finally learned not to join games well in progress unless it's really close. i never paid much attention to the game score or time remaining previously, but now i know. since my last post i have slightly better than 50/50 results but my overall win/loss is still close to 70\% in favor of defeat. anyway, i see the light now. i've even been on a few of those "magic teams" particle noun spoke of and it is truly amazing to see good players at work. i've finished high up on some of those games as well, so my own game play is improving. anyway, it's been a real learning experience and forgive me if i complained like a newby.. lol
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978650] |
Sun, 17 March 2002 04:20 |
|
|
u know you can set the side you want to on the My Information menu . This makes it so you can be the side you want(most of the time). It works when the teams are even (EXAMPLE: 4 vs 4) you go to that side you chose. But if you are one team is down a player you will join there team regardless(unless someone else joins before you). It is not completely random. There is a whole logic applied to which team you join. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978648] |
Sun, 17 March 2002 17:20 |
|
|
|
It works for me. The score also has to do with it too(not much but...). It was just a thought but you should try it. "Observe" some more as you call it.
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978647] |
Sun, 17 March 2002 17:21 |
|
|
|
I entered a server were GDI were at 970 points and nod was at a measly 210 points. Strange part was that GDI had 6 people while Nod had 11. I counted up the scores (with a calculator ) and sure enough those 6 GDI completed their score. When I joined the game I was Nod, making it 12 vs 6. Do you ALWAYS join the losing side?
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978646] |
Sun, 17 March 2002 10:31 |
|
|
|
in a server were u cant choose ur own team there isnt a way to stack them, the reason u think its that is because theres usally one very good player that can get the rest of his team or some of his team to listen to him and help him out. but most games will have atleast 1 or 2 good people on there teams and after people see how good they are they try to do the same things that there doing. personally i'm a pretty good **** sniper i can pick off a running enemy easy but after people on ur team notice what ur doing and that its affective they will start doing it to
|
|
|
|
| my observation... [message #-978645] |
Mon, 18 March 2002 08:34 |
|
|
I'm gonna respond again, because I think this is a pretty important post. Everything people have been saying is true. Since my first post, I've cemented a few of my ideas about this.
In terms of getting people to work together, it really can be a matter of taking the bull by the horns, or, knowing when to just follow along. Usually, when a new map starts, if no one in a previous game has taken the "command" initiative, I'll try to shout out a possible strategy (taking care to not make it sound like I'm barking out orders, but rather suggesting a possible stragegy...some folks get put off by the authoritarian approach). If there are a few receptive people, I try to keep track of them, and keep reminding them of the strategy. If you don't do this, things will often quickly fall apart, but a gentle reminder (i.e.- "anyone close yet to buying a flame tank?") will often help get the strategy back on track.
On the flip side, if someone else pipes in with a strategy before me, then I'll certainly go along with it. Even if it sounds dumb...I think it's good to give people a chance to try out new strategies (I've learned several very very effective stragies this way). Don't feel that just because your not MVP level, or don't feel you've got the chops, you don't have the right to suggest a team tactic if no one else is pipping up. Worse case, no one listens. I find this happens pretty frequently, in which cases I just switch to my favorite "every man for himself" strategy, or just leave the server, depending on my mood.
Have some confidence...shout out ideas.
And most of all....ALWAYS KEEP AN EYE UP AT THE COMM AREA....IF YOU DON'T ALWAYS READ THE TEXT, YOU'LL NEVER HEAR ABOUT COORDINATED ATTACKS!!!!
Side Note: One tactic that worked real well for me once was to come up with two tactics...a dummy one and the real one. You then broadcast the fake one on the public channell, quickly followed by the "****, meant to sent that private" message...
You'll be surprised how easily you can set up the opposing team to perpare for a rush that's never coming....course, this won't always work, but it's **** funny when it does!)
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Wed Feb 12 04:06:13 MST 2025
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.00894 seconds
|
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
