Im not an expert at this, but I still think some things could be done, and need to be done:

1. Snipers - need to get more points for killing infantry, even regular ones, in my opinion snipers don't get enough points for how crucial they can be. If a sniper gets a headshot he should be rewarded even more points.

2. Snipers/basic rifle infantry - need to get less points for shooting heavy armored vehicles, they do absolutely no damage, yet you as a rifleman can get tons of points for just sitting there and shooting away at the harvester in early game doing absolutely nothing.

Same for snipers, heres the odd thing, shoot a heavy armored vehicle when it has a green health bar, and even though you aren't doing jack you get quite a few points which should be reduced since you aren't doing jack, shoot a heavy armored vehicle with orange or red health (less then 50\%) and you barely get any points, that should be how it always is. Why is it like that in the first place?

3. Tanks that sit there and attack buildings all day while an engineer repairs it thus doing nothing shouldn't get as much points.

Most popular way to be an MVP? Blast a repairing building all day. Thats bs, as you keep attacking a building and failing to gain an edge on destroying it, the points should slowly decrease until they are almost nothing so you are forced to do a different tactic or go after a different building.

4. Engys repairing tanks should most definately get more points, as it is now I think for repairing a harvester from near death to full health you get about 20 points/credits. Ridiculous. Thats the same as shooting a tank twice or a couple times with certain classes.

5. The first person to start planting proxys should get a bonus on all the mines he plants until the 30 mine limit is reached, im sick of people forgetting the great responsibility of mining entrances which sometimes happends and ends up losing you the game.

Also buying that first techy and not a tank or not trying to go out and get points/credits with a character is a big sacrifice for the tedious and mildy awarding to the mining player mining job.

Heck as long as you aren't replacing other mines because the 30 limit is reached you should get points for laying the proxys, its an important job.

Feel free to disuss and add your own or respond to my recommendations hatefully

Renegade’s a good game, but it could have been much more. They should have incorporated some sort of voice-com software into the game. They should have developed a way to actually construct the buildings, which would give time to planning and provide for each team to present new challenges to a game with so few maps and limited strategies. But they didn’t.

So, I understand your viewpoint. You want to protect the children who go out and rush and die and rush and die, never building up a force for an all-out attack. WW isn’t going to implement your ideas, as good as they are. They’ve made this game. They just want to get the patch out, work on their editor and move on. But I think you are right. If you find out about a possible Renegade expansion pack or sequel, please become a beta tester and tell them when the changes can still be made.

Now, Noddies are gonna b**** and moan about that, but seriously, something needs to be done about how quickly flamers can level the only really effective passive defense for GDI in the game. GDI's only real chance at knocking an Ob off is to get a hotwire into it, which is no easy feat. NOD has an easy, no fuss way to do it every map. That's just not fair, and it doesn't gel with WW's policy of trying their best not to unbalance sides. I mean, it's either do something like the walls or make the flamers less powerful against buildings - which would you rather have?

Basically the only time I ever buy a Havoc is when I'm beacon placing on GDI. Very rarely do I ever get an infantry unit I CAN'T kill in one shot with the Ramjet rifle, as most premium units are off being Rambos.

Yet snipers are important and I can't count how many times I and my team could have used some but no one was or wanted to be one, is that fair then?

I think its stupid that the ONLY thing that gives you big points is base attacking, because certain things like battles and even infantry battles can be important.

On hourglass one time nod said screw fighting the begginning pointless infantry battles in the tunnels, and almost all team gdi came pouring out the tunnels towards the obleisk and a couple of us got through (not me) planted some c4 and boom the obleisk was down in like the first 5 minutes.

Everything has a point, not just attacking the enemy base, yet your rewarded ten fold for attacking the base whether its doing something or not.

Thats just not how it should be, thats not teamwork.

quote:

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Originally posted by destruyax:
In the next patch, all AGTs should have a wall surrounding them on three sides (in the RTS I surrounded mine with two rows sometimes in multiplayer) to discourage flamers from getting RIGHT next to them.

Now, Noddies are gonna b**** and moan about that, but seriously, something needs to be done about how quickly flamers can level the only really effective passive defense for GDI in the game. GDI's only real chance at knocking an Ob off is to get a hotwire into it, which is no easy feat. NOD has an easy, no fuss way to do it every map. That's just not fair, and it doesn't gel with WW's policy of trying their best not to unbalance sides. I mean, it's either do something like the walls or make the flamers less powerful against buildings - which would you rather have?

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They are balanced, if you let the flame destroy the agt then it's your own fault and your team's fault for not being organized. Since you know the flames are coming anyways set up defences, ANY flame rush can be beaten if the just WORK together

Well.. two things here. First, if you don't like it then destroy the tank. Secondly, I'd say that they are doing good since an engineer has to be occupied by repairing the building and can't go do anything else. The engineer is also building points here, although not as fast as the tank.

As far as snipers go.. why does every other person want to be a sniper and kill everyone? I think you do actually get more points if it is a special unit. Obviously killing the free ones doesn't get you much, but it's the same for regular infantry who are taking more of a risk by running through active combat areas.

One thing I think needs to be changed is that repairing vehicles should provide points to engineers, since they do so much of it without being rewarded.

I definately don't agree with that for some levels. Compared to the obelisk, the AGT isn't usually as fast to destroy something. 5 or 6 flame tanks will take out an AGT a lot easier than 6 medium tanks will take out an obelisk. I still feel that GDI doesn't have enough to offset the stealth ability of NOD, particularly in defenseless levels. The flame tanks are weaker than a medium tank (unless you let them get right on top of your before you fight back), but they do more than damage a single target. The flames do area damage and vaporize infantry and also severely reduce visibility. For many people, they also cause some lag increase.

I don't mean to complain too much since I've done well playing GDI, but I think that the AFT is more important to GDI than the obelisk is to NOD. At least NOD can always see incoming raids whereas GDI is dependent on the AGT to detect stealth units.

I think it'd be best if they added the ability to build a few turrets or some form of defenses, to both sides.

you mean flame a soldier for 10 seconds to kill it...

flamers do barely anything to infantry and so this is one of their weaknesses.

Exploit it, get engis to C4 them or gunners, PIC sydney or mobius to whack them.

Engys should get more points, especially for repairing tanks at the frontline as its a dangerous place to be an infantry unit. They should also get more points for disarming C-4 and beacons. Maybe they should even get more points for a kill due to the difficulty of this with a pistol.

I find that when I'm a hotwire or tech I'm sacrificing score and ladder big time but the team win is most important so when nobody else wants to defend then I have to. You can rack up big points on the no AGT/Ob. maps as these units however.

Victor

Maybe if they still did get their score when shooting tanks but did just a little more damage against tanks so it is slightly noticable?

If anything I would have snipers do less damage against light vehicles so both the vehicles and especially the aircraft can shine and then do more damage (not a lot) against heavy armored tanks.

[ April 11, 2002: Message edited by: Every Silent Victim ]

And about snipers: they should be given more points for taking out repairing engineers I think, but the points from being a sniper comes from taking out expensive stuff, just like anyone else. You kill a 1000 cred unit, you get about 93 points, if I remember correctly. That's a fairly decent amount of money for you too. Vehicles, same thing, you get good points for dropping an Arty/MRLS/Hummer/buggy with a sniper.

It's all about killing the bigger threats to your base. An engineer repairing a tank is much less of a threat then the actual tank itself, although the tank is much more of a threat with an engy.

As a Raveshaw I can EASILY snipe people almost, its bascially like a superpowered sniper rifle thats great against tanks but you only get a one shot deal (I never usually shoot off more then 1 shot as sniper anyways before I reload)

And as mobius your a threat to everything but units at long range.

But as a sniper, you are forced to snipe light armored vehicles which you see much less of in later game, and premium infantry which aren't always going to be around.

You have to snipe the worthless infantry and waste ammunition and not get any points because they can easily become a threat to you.

Its not a fair deal in my opinion, probably why not a lot of people are snipers.

in any case, i would just remind the players that this is c&c mode(i know, i already said that), and destruction of the enemy base is THE mission! in real war, if you are given an order to destroy a facility, i doubt your superior would promote you for failing, but replying "yah, but look at all the tanks and enemy soldiers i killed!".. lol...

[ April 12, 2002: Message edited by: zukkov ]

So while infantry wise it might turn into a sniper war, it would be the tanks job through teamwork to clear some of the snipers out.

If they did less damage against light as I said they should, the light vehicles have more firepower and are naturally better at flushing them out then the heavy armored vehicles which aren't bad themselves. Imagine buggys/humvees that are a bit more immune to snipers, 500 for snipers 300-350 for the buggys/humvees, it would give them more of a use again.

Then you have the heavy armor with my slight damage increase recommendation still easily surviving a large amount of sniper shots clearing them out, tanks and remember apcs, while never used to kill infantry when they ARE used they kill them quite quickly and painlessly.

quote:

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Originally posted by destruyax:
In the next patch, all AGTs should have a wall surrounding them on three sides (in the RTS I surrounded mine with two rows sometimes in multiplayer) to discourage flamers from getting RIGHT next to them.

Now, Noddies are gonna b**** and moan about that, but seriously, something needs to be done about how quickly flamers can level the only really effective passive defense for GDI in the game. GDI's only real chance at knocking an Ob off is to get a hotwire into it, which is no easy feat. NOD has an easy, no fuss way to do it every map. That's just not fair, and it doesn't gel with WW's policy of trying their best not to unbalance sides. I mean, it's either do something like the walls or make the flamers less powerful against buildings - which would you rather have?

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Worst idea ever....that would just ruin the game. if they did that they would have to do the same thing to the obelisk. its easy to get right under the obelisk with a mammoth and blow it into oblivion during a big rush.

The defenses are fine as they are, although ai DEFINATLY agree a new patch needs to come up to pump up the AGT's power. it just sucks. even when its rockets hit the AGT cant even kill a Nod buggy. its a terrible defense compared to Nod's Obelisk that does 300 damage every 5 seconds.

just my opinion.